You may not know this, but this advertisement was put in all Australian newspapers today. This advertisement got placed on the Australia Day photos spread.


If you would like to help, please submit this already written letter
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/take_action/bobby-calf-cruelty/

They should sell the calves to the meat cow farms (unless the breeds are different, which may be the case seeing as I know **** all about farming). That way everyone wins: animal lovers are happy as are the calves, dairy farms gain money and the meat cow farms gain more cows.

Meat cows and dairy cows are different.

There are actual ways of selecting the gender of the cows. If they bred for only female cows, that would stop a lot of unnecessary death.

I think they are slaughtered for veal, the thought behind it is that the "Bobby's" are just new borns so their muscles are tender and soft, which is perfect for veal.

But this is indeed saddening, you think they could give the cows something so its like a placebo pregnancy so they produce milk, instead of having to have a calf.

Yeah there should be a simple, humane solution.

But the real issue here is that they are starved before they go to slaughter, do they don't do their business.

Not being fed and the fact that you are torn from your mother would be very traumatic.

This is all very sad

but I have to say that I support the milk companies

Its just business, nothing personal

They are there to make money

The babies will die either way

I am not evil, just being realistic

If you want to worry about something, how about all the starving children in Africa, not baby cows that will be slaughtered anyway

I can see that the human race really has their priorities straight

I bet the people who made that ad in the paper are still drinking milk

And I'm pretty sure that meat and milk cows are very different emily

If you want to worry about something, how about all the starving children in Africa, not baby cows that will be slaughtered anyway.
-You think I don't? I don't think something should be tortured before being killed.

I can see that the human race really has their priorities straight
-No, they don't. Cruelty is never a priority.

I bet the people who made that ad in the paper are still drinking milk
-No. It was funded completely by the public, who wanted to see this stopped.

Its not like they are intentionally harming the animals Emilia, they are just trying to save money, the consumers push the companies to lower their prices and when they find a way they get told off for it. Many animals are harmed in the process of making food, not just cows. The fact is, imo, as long as it is for the purpose of making food and saving money then it is justified, the only time that the killing of animals isn't, is when they are killed for sport, that is the real injustice that the human race does to animals in this world.

There is a difference between torture and killing.

Most animal welfare groups are very accepting that people eat meat (Just like I do), but an animal should not have to suffer before it is killed.

*twitch*

I've heard about stuff mum has found out regarding cows milk, and it seems that no one should actually be drinking cows milk, no one at all except the baby calves, but I never really had any real reason to be against the production of it.

Well sure they were producing something that is not nearly as good for us as they've convinced us it is, but the majority of production is like that anyway.

After hearing this though I'm considerably offended, never before had I thought about what was involved in the production of cows milk <_<

So I sent at email to Dairy Australia about this. A lot of people from Animals Australia did the same and we all got the same email back. I was disgusted. This is what they said.

We value our bobby calves.

No one loves calves more than farmers who depend upon them to keep their farms going.

Every year a cow has a calf. Female calves (heifers) are mostly kept as part of the herd. The bull calves are mostly sold, either to the veal market (bobby calf), or grown for another 15 months for sale as prime beef.

Regardless of whether they are heifers or bull calves, on Australian dairy farms, they are fed and looked after to the same high standards of care.

Why do bobby calves have to be culled so young?
Some people want to eat veal (calf meat). The bobby calf market is valuable and contributes to the economic sustainability of processing establishments and rural Australian communities.

Why not let them grow older for meat?
Some bobby calves are able to be reared as dairy beef. The dairy industry is fully supportive of people who rear bobby calves as this provides a great alternative to calves being sent for processing and also assists in those areas where calves can’t be sent to processors. Unfortunately there is a small and unreliable market for dairy beef and is in direct competition with the beef industry, which offers a higher quality and value product because of the differing genetic makeup.

Why take them from their mothers so young?
All dairy calves are removed from their dams when they are young to reduce the risk of disease and research suggests that separating cow and calf as early as possible reduces the stress on both as there will be minimal bonding between them.

Calves can only be transported for sale or slaughter once they are healthy and old enough to stand and move unassisted and cope with transport which is from at least five days of age.

Why are you supporting a standard of 30 hours time off feed?
The proposed standard will improve the welfare of calves as it provides assurances that calves must be fed within 30 hours from the last feed where currently there is no standard in place to ensure a maximum time off feed for bobby calves

Of course this is a maximum standard that people can’t go over. Just because there is a standard this does not mean everyone will suddenly stop feeding calves earlier or hold off slaughtering them for longer. Industry will continue to support that processors slaughter calves as soon as possible which is often a lot less than 30 hours. We will also continue to work with farmers, transporters and processors to make sure that they take the best possible care of those animals at all times.

Animals Australia supports a scenario of animals being slaughtered on farm as it means the calves are not subject to transport regardless of the fact this would make them more of a waste than what Animals Australia are already claiming. There are also additional problems of disposing of those carcases on farm as it is likely to result in significant environmental and biosecurity issues.

More information on bobby calves is available on our website: http://www.dairyaustralia.com.au/bobby-calves

Won’t 30 hours time off feed leave the calves hungry and thirsty?
When we talk about time off feed we are only talking about milk. Calves have water available to drink at the abattoir if they are thirsty.

Once calves are removed from their mother on the farm they are usually fed by the farmer daily. Calves process feed differently from humans so while many people think of five day old babies when they think of bobby calves what actually happens when calves drink milk is that it forms a ball like substrate in the stomach and is released slowly over time, unlike humans who process nutrients a lot faster and therefore feel hungry and have to eat more regularly. This is why calves can go for a lot longer on one meal than humans.


Why are calf transporters so cruel to calves?
Unfortunately there are some cases of calf buyers not treating calves as nicely as they could. When we find out about this we make sure those calf buyers are told how they should be handling calves and if they don’t change they are then no longer allowed to work with them. Industry has worked closely with government and the RSPCA and Animals Australia to develop standards about how calves can be handled. We also have training in place to ensure calf handlers know how they can and can’t handle calves.


All of Australia’s dairy animals are treated to the same high standards of animal care. Our farmers love their cows and are aware that healthy and well cared for cows give nutritious and high quality milk. All animals are essential to the dairy industry and sound animal husbandry practices and management systems are in place to ensure animal welfare outcomes for all animals on farm are maintained, and adhere to existing Codes of Practice and standards.

That sounds ok to me.

I don't understand how you can be disgusted by that Emily, they explained everything well to me and it all sounds good to me, so I don't understand what your problem is.

Just leave it alone, I'm sure they know what they are doing and they seem to have a lot more experience than you on the matter lol.

Its not even as bad as I thought, its not like they are actually starving the animals, they still have water available to them as it said.

Obviously this is another case of people making something look a lot worse than it really is.

Since when does water have nutritional value?

I don't think nutritional value really matters Emilia since they will be killed soon, the fact is its not like they are in terrible pain and as they said the baby cows do not require as much food as a human baby. They said that the milk just sits in their stomachs for a while anyway, so the milk would be going to waste anyway. Everything that they have just said there I have believed, farmers aren't evil people who aim to torture animals Emilia, I'm sure that they actually care about the animals, but they have to watch their wallets as well.

Baby cows need to be feed 5 times a day. So, they are missing out on about 5-7 feeds before they are killed. How is that not cruel?

Plus, the whole milk in the stomach thing, same thing happens for human babies.

At the end of the day, it comes down to the fact that the cows will be killed soon, so it doesn't really matter in the end, but you keep worrying about it Emily.

I'll just let my conscious rest on more important matters.

I don't believe in torture before death, regardless if it is a human or an animal.

Just because I care about this doesn't mean I don't care about other world issues.

Emilia I don't know why you're discussing it with Martin, he clearly doesn't see the problem or care.

Martin, I could explain it to you, but you still wouldn't care and I'd be wasting a whole lot of time to actually get you to understand the problem, without getting somewhere worthwhile.

Mostly Martin, you're telling us why you thinks this topic is a waste of time, fine you think that, you've got your opinion, Emilia has hers, don't keep repeating yourself with different words when you don't even care at all. You don't care for the topic and you don't care what anyone else thinks about the topic, I don't know why you bother continuing to give us your input.

Does it really matter?
Their whole purpose is to Bred to be fed to the consumer.
So if they are going to die pretty much straight away, and survive on water, its a good substitute for milk, seeing as they are dieing.
They aren't being completely starved, barely 'torture'

I honestly go with martin, not much point repeating what he said.
Also, Phoenix, you psot a controversial topic, you get controversy. Get over it.
Just like Euthanasia topic on MO a while back.


Sidenote: If i get accused of trolling iwill seriously **** rage.

Exactly what miniman said,

I completely understand the issue here John, you don't need to explain anything to me. You're all sad that the animals aren't getting milk and I say big deal, that doesn't mean that I don't care, it just means that I believe that the baby cows don't need the milk. As Hayden just put it, I hardly see this as torture, they are getting water after all, the farmers are not intentionally harming the animals, they are just trying to save some money.

You have a different view. Seeing as we can't actually ask the animals how they feel about the matter we can't get their view, which is what matters most. Emilia is trying to think on their behalf, she thinks they deserve a better life than what they're getting, whats wrong with that?

We don't need to get their view john lol, I think the baby cow's view is pretty obvious - that they don't want to be killed at all just like any animal. If the question at hand here is if the animals deserve to live then sure, they deserve to live, just like every animal in this world has a right to live, but the fact is that we need to kill animals to get food, its a normal part of life.

I hardly think that whether the animals get milk or not is anything important to worry about or is going to make much of a difference to their well being while they are being transported anyway. I'm pretty sure that any baby could survive on just water for 30 hours or however long it is, but that is fine, you all have the right to worry about it, just be happy that you don't work in an abattoir lol.

Normal...

there is a considerable amount of "normal" in this world that seriously dislike. I have a problem with it because I think it could be done better. I accept the how the world works, it runs on a system that can't change as easily as some people would like I'm well aware of it. Doesn't stop me from not liking it.

I accept it and I go about my business not actually doing something about it and part of me hates that. I wouldn't know where to start even if I wanted to do anything, and this ... system that we've built for ourselves, is mighty good at keeping us distracted from anything that isn't how to get money and how to spend money.

This system might be the best we've got, I accept that, but I dislike so much of it. I might be sheeping around for the most part, but I wont allow my brain to be a sheep either...