I reckon humans have evolved past the need for any deity's and religions. They were used as a source of comfort and a natural product of humans that want to understand everything. Humans didn't have the resources or the knowledge back then to explain very much at all of the world. So they turned to invisible monsters that created everything, and nobody could question such a powerful beings creation. But now many of the mysteries that were attributed to deity's have been explained, such as the Sun and how the body works and the eco system and rain and the moon etc.
Now all that is keeping religion around is fear and an unwillingness to embrace the future. Leaders now use it to calm and control the weak and feeble minded, instead of acknowledging that it was a necessary part of our evolution that is no longer needed.
A world without religion sounds like a good step forward.

That is why I am a Secular Humanist.

So I agree with your first paragraph.

Religion does have its good points. It brings people together to think about positive things and help people out.
I just don't think that you need to be religious to do that.

I do agree with you that humanity, not religion is influencing the future. Helping each other out, helps the world. Not a prayer.

Just praying for something to happen won't make it happen. Going out there and doing it will.

But, me being a Humanist means
I am respectful of what people believe in
We don't need the answers to everything: Saying we have no clue is ok.
and maybe one day the answers may come along, but we shouldn't wait around for them

And being a Secular Humanist means
I don't believe in a god or a higher being
and science explains what we know and not a god

I agree with you there emilia

I take a more "Kill all who oppose me" approach to my beliefs.

I remember you posting this of Facebook Fade, and i've thought about this more since.

Religion, while seemingly unnecessary is, in my opinion, a necessary evil. Religion allowed us (humanity) to grow while we were weak and feeble-minded. Like many things which have given us strength, we are loath to remove them unless an improvement can be readily found.

This is one of the reasons why England still has a Monarch, it allowed them to rule supreme over the weaker nations with one wo/mans guidance.

Also, like Emilia says, it brings people together with the intention of helping people. While praying is the wrong way to do it, they try, and in my books, you get points for trying.

As far as I'm concerned, religion lost all it's points when the Christian dark Ages occurred.

Its funny how you refer to us as the human race saying that we used to be weak and feeble minded, which is why we supposedly needed religion kingfrozen, but in a thousand years, the people of the future will probably think the same of us, does that mean that we need religion now as well? There is still so much that we don't know and the way I see it, there will always be so much that we don't know. I mean new discoveries are opening up new questions all of the time, that's why there is religion, to try and explain the unexplained and give some form of meaning to our lives, but I don't agree with you that religion was ever necessary, we could have lived our lives just as happily without religion, if not more, because one of the main reasons that religion was created was for oppression and control, many wars have been fought over religion, that's why it is an evil in a sense, because it is used as an excuse to try and give meaning to our lives and justify violence.

What you say is true Martin, but I can't see any way that humans could have evolved without religion. They needed to understand everything around them, it was human nature.

Humans have had religion for as long as we've had culture (having a sun god, or animal spirits for example). It's core purpose has always been to explain the unexplainable. Just because leaders use this to enslave and kill, doesn't mean that religion itself is evil.

In that sense, religion is similar to science. Science attempts to explains the world, but people use it for evil acts as well as beneficial ones - nuclear weapons and medicine immediately spring to mind.

And also you need to remember that religion gives millions of people strength, peace of mind and a friendly community. Many scientifically minded people follow a religion.

God is dead thanks to science.
(wikipedia that phrase to get it)

Religion doesn't evolve us, what makes you think that we don't need religion now, but we did back then fade? How has religion evolved us? Science definitely has and I didn't say that religion is evil emily, all I meant was that kingfrozen was right in saying that religion does have evil elements to it, science does as well, but its more how people use the power of science or religion. I'm not saying that one is good and evil, no one can truly say that, because that is really subjective, nothing is really good or evil, its just a difference of opinion, but what I can tell you is that I don't believe that religion was ever necessary. Science definitely is because it has evolved us, but religion hasn't, religion hasn't improved our lives in anyway. You may say that religion gives us strength, peace of mind and all that emily, but we don't need religion for that. I am definitely not religious, are you saying that I don't have strength or peace of mind and that is exactly my point.

I'm not saying that every person can only get peace of mind through religion, but that some people do get something out of it. One particular, important way that it helps, is that it gives people a sense of community and good will. Though of course, that can be found from paid work or volunteering as well. It's all in the eye of the beholder really. And there have been studies that show that people who feel a connection to a higher being/s tend to report more feelings of wellbeing and contentedness (and all that other good stuff) than those who don't have 'a connection'.

Religion does indeed have bad elements to it. It's often used as an excuse for people to be narrow minded and stubborn, particularly about issues like homosexuality, racism and evolution. War is also an obvious negative repercussion of religion, but that's more about people not being able to settle differences more than anything.

Martin, I don't mean that religion evolved us, that's ridiculous. I mean that I can't see humans evolving without creating religion to explain the world around them.

I can't believe I didn't think of this before! The aboriginals, native to Australia, had religion didn't they? They worshipped animal spirits and creatures that were said to have formed the world. Their core beliefs were that humans were not above everything else, that humans were part of the world just as much as animals were, and as such, they were all equal.

In this case, a rare one but still, humanity was a) not above the world because we had a god and b)the elders who taught it were revered but did not exert control over the people who followed them.

These people were more than happy (it would seem) before white settlers came and totally screwed up the world that the aboriginals loved and cared for.

Also, Martin, what you say is true, we look back and see that the people of the past were, well, dumb. It is more than likely that people will look back on us and think that we were dumb as well. Especially since we are talking in this forum about the existence of a god who, lets face it, even if s/he/it did exist wouldn't care.

Going way back to the whole evil thing you were talking about.

This may sound corny, but I am reading Six Sacred Stones by Matthew Reilly and he talks about Ying and Yang. It got me thinking...



Two different colours. Two opposing forces, interconnected.
If we take the example of good and evil.
The two opposing colour dots mean
"In good there is some evil and in evil there is some good"

It all depends on the context and what you believe.

In terms of religion, it is going to have it's good points and it's bad points. If you are apart of that religion, you are going to see more of the good points. If you are not, you will point out all the negatives. But those opposing points are going to be there.

You just have to admit that there is a flaw in everything. Nothing is going to be completely one sided. That is where religion sometimes fails. It is a one sided view of the world. Why do you think that religious wars start? Because they believe that their belief is right and the other is wrong.

If everyone was willing to see everyone's view as a whole, just except it and regardless of what you believe, work together, "ying and yang" truly works.

That little flaw that is apart of everything...it is sometimes admitting that you are wrong about things and willing to agree to disagree.


Ramble over

So... it can be good for us no not depending on what we want it to be/think it is? You have given me a lot to think about

That's not what i have said.

I have said that life itself shouldn't be looked at from only one angle.

Emi has pretty much already said what I would say here

Perhaps we do not need Religion, but in reality there is little we need and far too much that we feel we do need because of our society's foundations.

But humanity does need goodness, without it the world would fall to darkness and evil. No religion is not the only way to provide this goodness, but it is the source of goodness within many people in this world.

Many people do not believe because Religion's are often strict and impose rules upon us that we do not entirely agree with, these rules are very important to some, and laughable to others.

The point of Religion remains regardless. That we should all be kind and loving to one another, to inspire goodness for all. I don't see anyone or anything else trying to tell us that we should be good, therefore how can society not need Religion

You might say that Religion isn't the only thing that makes people good, therefore we don't need it. Well perhaps you are right there, but Religion is such a large part of our society and our history that it would be difficult to prove that Religion hasn't in some way directly or indirectly provided goodness to all, even those who do not actually believe. Nor can I prove that Religion is entirely the reason for all of the worlds goodness. Necessary or not, I feel Religion plays a large role in the lives of many people in the right way, and that in reality we could do with more people who are Religious.

Yet there are people who kill in the name of their religion.

Your right John, but religion doesn't create all goodness, it creates a lot of evil and bad in this world as well, a lot of people have killed over religion. I believe that religion was never really needed, we don't need a higher power to tell us to be good, that is what our conscience and morals are for. Religion doesn't really add anything to that, all it does, is gives people a reason to live on, people who believe anyway and the fact of the matter is that there are many people who have lived without religion, which proves that its not needed.

I already agreed to that martin, obviously Religion isn't the only way to do things, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't remain as an option. Religion probably isn't needed, but that doesn't mean we should get rid of it.

Religion doesn't promote killing though, you can't blame Religion for people killing just because it was in Religion's name. I don't actually know every Religion, far from it, just mine, and it says Thou Shalt Not Kill. Killing in its name would be against what it teaches.

I'll agree that Religion probably isn't needed, but I still think Religion is a good thing, its trying to bring good into this world.

The 10 commandments stop no one in the end.

There is a thing called vengeance and jealously that overrule what we think sometimes.

so we should just give up? theres a drinking age, not everyone listens to it though, should we just scrap the drinking age because everyone drinks? no

it sucks the way humans work that way but religion does try

I never said that.

Moving on

Who heard about the woman being cure of cancer, by god?

lol ****